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2008 1.6 petrol non starter


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#1 vincentfishing

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 12:06 PM

Car stopped , wont start , lexia shows P1557 ,P0122, P0121.
Motorised throttle signal loop problems,
Any suggestions as to possible cause or cure appreciated

#2 vincentfishing

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 12:58 PM

pics from scan

Attached File  2020 new picasso and other pics 373.jpg   101.49KB   1 downloads

Attached File  2020 new picasso and other pics 372.jpg   79.71KB   0 downloads

Attached File  2020 new picasso and other pics 371.jpg   101.25KB   0 downloads



#3 vincentfishing

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 05:12 PM

put some easy start into intake and car tried to fire,

so think the problem is fuel related, cleared previous faults above,

rescanned later and got new code P3014, program motorised throttle limits,

not sure if me trying to start it with no fuel 'apparently' getting through while pushing accelerator might be throwing up random faults,

pressed the little pressure release valve on pressure rail and petrol came out, so assume supply to rail is good,

wonder if anything else could be stopping fuel injecting other than duff ecu(will disconnect it tomorrow and look for signs of water damage) 

any ideas .



#4 vincentfishing

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 02:52 PM

Today now that i new it was trying to fire, decided to disconnect the fuel rail petrol inlet pipe and stick it in bottle
Switched ignition on and nothing,
I read somewhere to whack bottom of fuel tank, which i did
Turned on key and loads of fuel
Car wouldnt start ,took of pipe turned key on no fuel,
Whacked tank key on Fuel again!
Guessing that as soon as pipe reconnected and pump feels pressure it gives up ??
Wondering if i can confirm this is pump problem by rigging up bottle of fuel and spare electric pump directly to rail before i go ahead and drop tank and replace pump ???
Any thoughts or suggestions welcome

#5 vincentfishing

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Posted 22 October 2020 - 07:15 PM

when i disconnect fuel inlet pipe from fuel rail and switch ignition on, should the fuel flow continuously till tank empty or will the ecu/fuel pump relay or such like stop the pump  ?? 



#6 vincentfishing

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Posted 23 October 2020 - 11:28 AM

From what i have read online , the fuel pump will be cut off after a second or two by ecu if engine doesnt start, have found some wiring diags showing fuel pump and relay(haynes man didnt show electrical on these !) Apparently fuel pump is powered by pink wire at fuel pump relay so at moment have battery and ecu disconnected .
Plan is to disconnect petrol pipe at rail and put it in container , connect spare battery to earth and pump pink wire at fuel pump relay to positive , giving me permanent feed to pump which can be pulsed to see if pump works and pumps good flow without any problems, i am hoping pump fails as would rather change pump than fault find problem in wiring !!

#7 vincentfishing

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Posted 24 October 2020 - 10:54 AM

Gave up with trying the fuel pump from the relay , colours didnt match digs i had seen online,
Decided easier to jack up rear , disconnect plug at fuel tank and connect up to the pink live and green and yellow earth, tried pump several times no problem plenty of fuel,
Will probably replace fuel pump relay as its easy and cheap , if that doesnt work start testing every sensor that could be stopping fuel or spark
so now to read up on fault finding

Edited by vincentfishing, 24 October 2020 - 10:56 AM.


#8 discv

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Posted 25 October 2020 - 12:01 PM

Sorry we are not coming up with ideas- but keep at it and carry on posting your progress- may be of help to others in the future.


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#9 granpa

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Posted 25 October 2020 - 01:31 PM

Sorry we are not coming up with ideas- but keep at it and carry on posting your progress- may be of help to others in the future.

Yes, I feel for the guy but have nothing to add to the topic


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#10 vincentfishing

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Posted 26 October 2020 - 01:36 PM

Just to recap

 

bought as non starter 

previous owner peeled off loom covering from fuseboard to engine and tested for breakages etc , nothing found

 

told me  engine stopped while driving and has never restarted.

battery light remains on when ignition switched off and car locked, goes off after short while(bsi shutting down turns it off?)

fan keeps running after ignition off with engine cold so disconnected to stop battery draining(sort this out later ,dont think it has anything to do with current problem(P0485 fan fault)

 

Faults using lexia .

P03014 programme motorised throttle limits-- i may have caused this pressing throttle to floor with piece of wood to open throttle to try easystart to run engine(engine does appear to try to start) cant turn key and spray to keep engine running to prove its fuel and not electrics, getting some one to help just checked pump again with fuel pipe connected to check that back pressure might be causing it to jam, but could hear pump everytime i connected it.

so just to go back to what is happenning /happened

bought the car as non runner ,

previous owner put in 

1)new fuse board(engine comp)

2)new plugs

3) new coil pack

 

throttle butterfly and associated relay in fuseboard  machinegun(fast tapping from both when ignition energised(maybe as result of my messing with peddle, hopefully will reset and clear fault if i ever get engine running!

ecu------- not locked 

engine immobiliser programming status-----matched ecu

transmission of unlocking code------no problems detected

 

next plan is(unless someone comes up with a cunning plan)

to get someone to start car while i continously pump easystart in to see if it runs

to take off coilpacks and plugs to check for spark and any sign of fuel,

to copy and paste this onto peugeot forum to get their take on it ! (presuming same engine used in them) 

to get guage to check fuel rail pressure

 


Edited by vincentfishing, 26 October 2020 - 01:37 PM.


#11 vincentfishing

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Posted 26 October 2020 - 02:46 PM

Have just been out to listen to fuel pump again, and its cutting in and out in time with throttle butterfly , if i disconnect the multiplug nearest bulkhead in fuseboard Marked PM1 NOIR it stops both butterfly hammering and fuel pump pulsing loudly.
I presume that underneath fuseboard is some type of relay?



#12 vincentfishing

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Posted 27 October 2020 - 01:10 PM

Checked old fuseboard
Bsm-B3
16 fuses

New board(£309 ouch !)
Bsm-B5
18 fuses
Strange difference in fuses ?
Also received repaired remote key back today, resync'd it lock car and unlocked a couple of times , turned key andhammering, on throttle / fuseboard had stopped ! Coincidence or linked ??

#13 vincentfishing

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Posted 28 October 2020 - 01:59 PM

must have been in cloud cuckoo land, took out plugs and coil and reconected plugs outside engine to test for spark,tried to start but hammering still there which probable stopped any spark from occuring.

took apart old fuseboard/bsm and it was pristine,no damage or corrosion visible so going to put it back into car, the hope being that hammering of relay will stop which will mean its something i did to damage relay? or hammering will continue which will mean its at least before the fuse board(bsm).

if it still hammers can i disconnect throttle pedal sensor  to see if hammering stops and if there was nothing else wrong with the system would that put it into limp mode(so i could check spark at plugs?)

or does a disconnected throttle pedal sensor stop car starting thus no spark, 

also if this is throttle body/sensor problem can i disconnect stepper motor/throttle potentiometer  to see if hammering stops and will disconnecting these stop supply to coils

basically trying to find out which sensors can be disconnected but still allow power to coils to try and narrow down my problems  

need to get hammering sorted to progress with anything .

 



#14 vincentfishing

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Posted 28 October 2020 - 04:33 PM

Have trawled the net and the relay is, I think, the double injection relay

Have a load of tests to try, some based on the relay being removable which in the fuseboard//bsm  they are not as they are soldered into board,

but there are a couple of checks and tests of earth and supply i can check.so something to get on with



#15 vincentfishing

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Posted 28 October 2020 - 04:33 PM

Have trawled the net and the relay is, I think, the double injection relay

Have a load of tests to try, some based on the relay being removable which in the fuseboard//bsm  they are not as they are soldered into board,

but there are a couple of checks and tests of earth and supply i can check.so something to get on with



#16 vincentfishing

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Posted 29 October 2020 - 08:35 AM

Haynes manual is rubbish for wiring diags for this year and model, if anyone has any better electrical diagrams for 1.6vtx 16v petrol(TU5JP4 ?) Would be helpfull.Have trawled the net for relevant diags with no joy other than buying emanual for twenty quid, which dont want to do as potentially losing money scrapping this if i dont resolve issues !

#17 vincentfishing

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Posted 31 October 2020 - 08:08 PM

when the relay is clicking in and out constantly it seems to stop when moving 1st plug on ecu slightly, could be im causing an open circuit or could be a bad earth? there are 4 thicker earth wires going into this multiplug, would be handy to now where they go,its a bosch ME745 ecu ,if anyone has a wiring diag would be handy, in meantime when dry will check wire resistance while wiggling them.

 



#18 discv

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Posted 01 November 2020 - 03:06 PM

Attached File  tu5 pump.JPG   60.77KB   0 downloads

Attached File  tu5.JPG   59.36KB   0 downloads

 I'm messing about with PSA wiring diagrams- and this is as far as I have got. They are actually from a Peugeot TU5 JP4.

See if you can blow them so you can see them- and then I will try and get a nearer one for your car


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#19 vincentfishing

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Posted 01 November 2020 - 09:02 PM

Thanks

#20 vincentfishing

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Posted 02 November 2020 - 01:41 PM

Hi again,

out checking earth cables this morning, nothing untoward found,

decided to disconnect fuel pump at tank and test voltage across the live and earth  from engine bay with pump disconnected

with key in position 1 got  7.43v

with key at position 2 got  12.49v

when ign off, keys out got  1.79 v

Should i be reading these different voltages ?????