Jump to content


Photo

Ride quality


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 Ronat42

Ronat42

    18 HDI LX

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Worcestershire
  • Interests:Looking after SWMBO suffering from Myeloma since 2010.
    Thinking about all the things I should be doing and then finding reasons to put them off.

Posted 26 June 2018 - 10:28 PM

We've had our new C3 for 15 months and still only done 1200 miles. Most of this is in the past 3 months since we loaned our Xsara Pic to our son's family because they had problems with both of their own cars and we are having problems getting it back and they do not want to do a swap - even free!

 

The problem is that the C3 Pic is fine on smooth roads but a nightmare on most town and country roads. We went out a few days ago and after 5 miles turned round to pick up our other car because of the ride quality. It is sad because in most other aspects it is perfect for our needs. I think it has a lot to do with the use of low profile tyres on 17" wheels or possibly to any "enhancements" for the Platinum. It just seems to follow the road contours so closely that we are tossed around pebbles in a wheelbarrow over a cobbled street. Speed bumps bring on panic attacks. If we hadn't loaned out the old Pic this one would have just sat on the drive because no-one wanted to use it. I remember test driving an earlier version 3-4 years ago and not being aware of this problem.

 

Is this a standard for this model or can anything be done. If not, it will have to go and we shall demand the return of our old Pic. 



#2 Lancelot

Lancelot

    Lancelot the Beak now with a Kia Venga petrol Auto Type 3.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,667 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Middlesbrough & Mandurah West Australia
  • Interests:Computing. Grand Prix Motor Racing, Holidays in Western Australia each year, for 3 months.
    Red wine and Whisky, more Red Wine & Whisky.

Posted 26 June 2018 - 10:34 PM

Wow when I was working I'd have done over 60,000 miles in that time, but in a Mondeo.


The retired Beak with a 2ltr Petrol, Exclusive, Automatic, Picasso.
Arctic Steel - of course!

#3 stimulator

stimulator

    1.6 Cherry Red Metallic, wonder car

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,509 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Waterlooville Hants
  • Interests:Model trains OO gauge. C3 Picasso, Grandchildren

Posted 26 June 2018 - 11:26 PM

What year is it. My 2012 C3 Pic was a nice ride. It was IIRC on 16 inch tyres though. The usual reason for rutting is due to tyres being overinflated. However I did own a Corsa with electric power steering similar to C3 pic and that was atrocious with self steering, rutting etc. It was never cured and we got rid of it.
It might be worth borrowing some 16 wheels and see if they are the trouble. If not then possible dealer and rack change.
My new C3 MK3 saloon is even better with steering stability and lack of suspension noise and much improved ride.
17 Reg C3 Saloon Flair 1.2 110BHP
Previous Xsara Picasso 20HDi, C3 SX 1.4HDi, C3 SX 1.6HDI, C4 Picasso 1.6HDi VTR+ EGS 62 Reg C3 Picasso VTR+ 1.6 HDi 92BHP

#4 Ronat42

Ronat42

    18 HDI LX

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Worcestershire
  • Interests:Looking after SWMBO suffering from Myeloma since 2010.
    Thinking about all the things I should be doing and then finding reasons to put them off.

Posted 27 June 2018 - 01:07 AM

10 years ago I was doing 50K + a year in a variety of cars over the years, most being retired at 200 - 250K. Since reluctantly giving up work at 67 nearly 7 years ago it is down to around 10k. It would probably be more if I could find something more comfortable. We would have considered the C4 Pic but we have a MK3 Galaxy with only 30K on the clock as well as our original Xsara Pic which we do most of our travelling in. It had no trade in value and it is a good thing that we kept it. I might have been tempted to a Mondeo but at 6' tall with Ernie Wise legs I struggle to get in and once in all I wanted to do was get out.  

 

I have checked the tyres and they are bang on the required pressure. The car is a 66 Platinum bought early March 2017 as a pre reg with less than 50 miles on the clock. When driving, it is possible to hang onto the steering wheel but it is absolute misery for passengers. I can understand it to a certain extent due to the height/width but it really is unusable in it's current form. We really only bought it as a gesture to low emission motoring and based on over 14 years with the old Pic.

 

Our other car is a 2012 Galaxy Titanium bought at one year old and we had a similar experience with that although less severe but that was partially resolved by ditching the almost new run flats and replacing them with cheap imports set of 4 for less than the cost of one of the run flats. A cushion on each of the front seats solves the problem of the "Sports" seats (AKA commodes) but the ride in the back is still pretty miserable. The silly thing in this case is that the basic model has more comfortable seats and a much better ride  with smaller alloys. It all seems to be a modern trend as the now 16 year old predecessor which we gave to our son still out performs the new one in just about every important respect, comfort, ride quality, economy, drivability, all round vision and, believe it or not, emissions even with more than 200k on the clock. He won't give that one back either!

 

 


Edited by Ronat42, 27 June 2018 - 01:09 AM.


#5 granpa

granpa

    started with this beauty in '02 now got white c4 pic

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,247 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West Yorkshire
  • Interests:winding down and cruising to avoid my grown up kids who have diy jobs for me

Posted 27 June 2018 - 06:49 AM

Sounds like you have quite a collection available to use, park the c3 in the corner or loan that out instead if the x/pic and use one of the others from your fleet, my son now owns my c3 pic, I never liked it, I now have an old c4 pic


Edited by granpa, 27 June 2018 - 06:50 AM.


#6 Lancelot

Lancelot

    Lancelot the Beak now with a Kia Venga petrol Auto Type 3.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,667 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Middlesbrough & Mandurah West Australia
  • Interests:Computing. Grand Prix Motor Racing, Holidays in Western Australia each year, for 3 months.
    Red wine and Whisky, more Red Wine & Whisky.

Posted 27 June 2018 - 08:12 AM

Honest John recommends running the tyres at 2lbs/inch under the recommended pressure for a better ride.


The retired Beak with a 2ltr Petrol, Exclusive, Automatic, Picasso.
Arctic Steel - of course!

#7 Lancelot

Lancelot

    Lancelot the Beak now with a Kia Venga petrol Auto Type 3.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,667 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Middlesbrough & Mandurah West Australia
  • Interests:Computing. Grand Prix Motor Racing, Holidays in Western Australia each year, for 3 months.
    Red wine and Whisky, more Red Wine & Whisky.

Posted 27 June 2018 - 08:12 AM

Honest John recommends running the tyres at 2lbs/inch under the recommended pressure for a better ride.


The retired Beak with a 2ltr Petrol, Exclusive, Automatic, Picasso.
Arctic Steel - of course!

#8 stimulator

stimulator

    1.6 Cherry Red Metallic, wonder car

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,509 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Waterlooville Hants
  • Interests:Model trains OO gauge. C3 Picasso, Grandchildren

Posted 27 June 2018 - 08:13 AM

so it's still under warranty go an dhave a talk to the dealer and demonstrat it to them, what have you got to loose, nothing but you could gain.


17 Reg C3 Saloon Flair 1.2 110BHP
Previous Xsara Picasso 20HDi, C3 SX 1.4HDi, C3 SX 1.6HDI, C4 Picasso 1.6HDi VTR+ EGS 62 Reg C3 Picasso VTR+ 1.6 HDi 92BHP

#9 Ronat42

Ronat42

    18 HDI LX

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Worcestershire
  • Interests:Looking after SWMBO suffering from Myeloma since 2010.
    Thinking about all the things I should be doing and then finding reasons to put them off.

Posted 27 June 2018 - 09:35 AM

Thanks for the input folks.

 

Granpa - I think we had this conversation a while ago. In the past I have run cars to the point of zero value so the only continuing cost is insurance and maintenance so, with my wife's 55 years no claim and my 2 car full claims together with being old and decrepit we can insure 3 cars for little more than many pay for one and with our son and his wife driving a total of 170 miles a day to work a spare is always useful.

 

Stimulator - my local dealer has kicked Citroen out because of unreasonable demands after promising to give me a substantial discount on my next service for charging me for a full tank of adblue at £70 when the car didn't need it.

 

Lancelot - I tried that on the Galaxy and was rewarded with scrubbed tyre shoulders. I think the Pic's problem is a fixation with F1 type cornering ability above passenger comfort. I.E over stiff anti-roll but the low profile tyres don't help. I queried this with the dealer and he assured me that it made little or no difference. With the Galaxy I find keeping a full size spare wheel and a couple of 2" 2' x 2' slabs in the back helps and contrary to popular belief it doesn't affect fuel consumption and the spare wheel is a great comfort.

 

The only Citroens I can get into comfortably are the 2 Picassos and the only Fords that offer anything like the headroom, comfort and ride of older cars are the Galaxy and, daft as it sounds, the KA+ being the smallest in their range. (Designed in South America and built in India!!!)

 

I am now searching Ebay for a well kept 25 year old vehicle of some sort.  :mellow:


Edited by Ronat42, 27 June 2018 - 09:51 AM.


#10 fred

fred

    18 HDI LX

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 71 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wednesbury

Posted 27 June 2018 - 06:00 PM

I've seen several people say avoid the 17" alloys because of the harsh ride. Mines not too bad on 16" rims with Michelin cross climate tyres.(vast improvement over the factory fitted tyres!)

#11 Ronat42

Ronat42

    18 HDI LX

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Worcestershire
  • Interests:Looking after SWMBO suffering from Myeloma since 2010.
    Thinking about all the things I should be doing and then finding reasons to put them off.

Posted 27 June 2018 - 07:03 PM

Thanks Fred. I sounds like a visit to Halfords for a set of alloys with tyres might be on the cards. When I dumped the Bridgestone runflats (still with over 6mm of tread!) and put on 4 Landsails at £50 each the improvement was amazing both in ride, cornering as well as general stability. They did just under 30 K before I changed them and they still had 3mm tread.

It's about time the manufacturers and motoring press realised that not everyone is a Hamilton wannabe.

 

The factory tyres are exorbitantly expensive 'cos I just paid £150 for a replacement after an unfortunate meeting with a small rock on a dark road. A sensible rim and tyre would have survived. 



#12 BlackCherry

BlackCherry

    18 HDI LX

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 136 posts

Posted 28 June 2018 - 08:54 AM

I bought my 2011 C3 Picasso at 3 years old, and drove it home to Devon from Yorkshire. I was immediately impressed by how flat and stable it drove - it felt like a skateboard - after my slightly lumbering Zafira, but I then went through a rough-surfaced roadwork chicane at low speed and felt the rear skitter sideways; that was a surprise. Come that winter and first flurry of snow on the country roads, I could barely keep the rear attached to the car going round bends - it broke away at the first opportunity.

 

It also 'crashed' about on potholes and ridges and this was getting on my wick a bit.

 

The 17" (and 7" wide) 'Clover' wheels were also already well 'kerbed' when I bought the car at 21k miles, and I added to that almost from day one - if you as much as touched a kerb when parking, they were scored. The increasingly poor state of our roads with potholes aplenty made me realise that I hated low profiles tyres, especially when they sat on rims which were the virtual same width.

 

I settled on a set of 16" alloys from a C5 no less (the older models had only 4-studs) and colour-coded them to suit the BlackCherry. They now have 55-profile 205s on them, and the improvement is very clear. It has renewed my enjoyment of the car; it really is a tough car to beat for room, comfort and overall ability.

 

My old - and scuffed - Clovers sold easily on eBay; the buyer had them professionally refurbished in black and machined alloy. I wonder if they still look good...

 

I now have a unique BlackCherry - which rides significantly better than before.

 

When it comes to tyres, I can thoroughly recommend 'Goodyear EfficientGrip Performance' tyres at only around £64 a corner fitted. They are BAA rated - B for fuel economy (that's good), A for wet-weather grip (that's superb) and also only 68db noise level - that's very low and instantly noticeable improvement there too.

 

I bet you'll find plenty of 16" alloys on eBay to try, and most will come with usable tyres (tho' swap them for the Goodyears at the first opportunity!). Also have a search for 'breaking C3 Picasso' and enquire about the alloys - condition, etc. Finally try https://www.1stchoice.co.uk/ - I can also thoroughly recommend them. Simple as it gets - enter your reg number (or car details) and click on set of alloys 16".

 

Please keep us posted if you decided to go through with this - it would be interesting info for others too :-) .


Edited by BlackCherry, 28 June 2018 - 08:56 AM.


#13 Ronat42

Ronat42

    18 HDI LX

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Worcestershire
  • Interests:Looking after SWMBO suffering from Myeloma since 2010.
    Thinking about all the things I should be doing and then finding reasons to put them off.

Posted 28 June 2018 - 05:39 PM

Blackcherry - thanks for all of that. It may it seem worth trying to solve the problem rather than dump it on someone else.

 

Having been through this with the Galaxy I hoped there could be something that could be done. The first time I took the wife out in that after about 20 miles she got out and declared that she never wanted to get into it again and yet all the motoring press were overboard in declaring it so much better than the previous MK2. It was so bad that as little as catching a cat's eye on a minor bend was enough to send the back end on a dance that created panic about which way it would end up pointing. It doesn't even have ANY comfortable seats, or at least any that compare with the MK1 or MK2. There is also the issue that the earlier (Ghia) versions of the MK3 were much more in keeping with the older standard. The "Improved" Titanium spec was several steps in the wrong direction. I fear that the dropping of "Exclusive" for "Platinum" is much the same. I think the term is "Cost (Profit) improved."

 

Back to the Picasso - I shall continue to look around for some wheels but with new 15 alloys and tyres on offer for less than £500 a set that might be a bullet worth biting - If they pass the insurance test.

 

However, If and when we get the Xsara Pic back with 5 comfortable seats, pleasant interior and loads of storage My wife might dig her heels in.  Also, as part of our desperate efforts to find alternatives and leaving dealers without finding anything I could get into we fell across the Ford Ka+ - the smallest cheapest in the entire range but with 4 comfortable seats, loads of headroom, a smooth ride and an absence of low profile tyres and unwanted computerised junk being the first car for a long time that I felt perfectly at home in immediately, even in the rear seats - well I think I need a few good nights sleep. My wife didn't want to get out of it but then she was perfectly happy with the old Pic. At least it is the cheapest on offer! I might even get something close to a straight swap. Or, I might end up with 4 cars - again! The kids keep hinting.

 

All this because I wanted to do my bit for the environment!!!!!

 

I shall report back - If I can stay sane.

 

P.S. My wife's spine has been pretty well wrecked by the Myeloma so being thrown violently from side to side is more of an issue than for most.

 

 


  • BlackCherry likes this

#14 Ronat42

Ronat42

    18 HDI LX

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Worcestershire
  • Interests:Looking after SWMBO suffering from Myeloma since 2010.
    Thinking about all the things I should be doing and then finding reasons to put them off.

Posted 28 July 2018 - 02:14 PM

A quick update.

 

Today, having discovered that the Xsara Picasso wheels are the same fit as the C3 I removed the front wheels off the Xsara, had a pair of Landsails fitted £80 the pair, and had them fitted to the C3. What a difference! It actually felt like driving a proper car instead of a quad bike and during a short test run on some of our more infamous local roads SWMBO didn't complain once. The rears are going on when it stops raining and we're off for the same circuit where we had to abort because the ride was so bad.

 

The C3 doesn't look too bad with the Xsara alloys but the Xsara looks just plain silly with the clover wheels and the tyres just catch the wheel arch liners. 

During the test run the car didn't feel in any way unstable but the ride was so much better.

 

So! Does anyone know what the range of wheels/tyres are permitted on the C3 Pic? I have read somewhere that 195 65 R15 are fitted to some models - the Xsar Pics are 185s.

I am off to do some research.

 

 

    



#15 discv

discv

    1.8 HDI Exclusive

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 878 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London UK

Posted 28 July 2018 - 02:50 PM

Beware- a lovely get out for your insurers!


C4 Grand Picasso 1.6 HDi 16V FAP/DPFS 110, -Auto (DV6 - 80kW) (C4) (DT) (2008)

 


#16 Ronat42

Ronat42

    18 HDI LX

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Worcestershire
  • Interests:Looking after SWMBO suffering from Myeloma since 2010.
    Thinking about all the things I should be doing and then finding reasons to put them off.

Posted 28 July 2018 - 03:35 PM

Thanks Discv, Once I decide to keep the car I shall get it all cleared but we're still in the investigation stage and the current wheel/tyre size does seem to be a valid option. The current 15" option is the end game and if it don't work the car's going.  



#17 Marvin

Marvin

    Skoda Yeti SE Greenline II, 1.6TDi, Steel Grey

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 883 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 July 2018 - 09:06 AM

What matters is not just the wheel/tyre size,  but also the "offset" factor.... i.e. the vertical position of the mounting flange relative to the outer and inner faces of the wheel....this affects the tracking width and therefore also the clearance of the wheel in the wheel arch and also the ride characteristics.



"Life? Don't talk to me about life....."


#18 Ronat42

Ronat42

    18 HDI LX

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Worcestershire
  • Interests:Looking after SWMBO suffering from Myeloma since 2010.
    Thinking about all the things I should be doing and then finding reasons to put them off.

Posted 29 July 2018 - 10:10 PM

Thanks Marvin. I see you have a Skoda Yeti. One of those was my next choice but as we already have a MK3  Galaxy we were really looking for a small car - bad move! I have to say that I should have preferred the Yeti and, while not driven one, the cab and interior was more to my taste than the Galaxy but that was another purchase based on the earlier model and the story with that is on the same lines as this with the C3 albeit not so severe. New tyres and cushions on the front seats made it tolerable but no one likes riding in the back and it will never come close to the MK2. I was saddened to learn the the Yeti had been discontinued, at which the used prices increased. I think that says a lot about "progress" and the nonsense written by the motoring columnists.

 

As far as the C3 in concerned I am afraid it will shortly be appearing on Autotrader (with its original wheels) as the very considerable ride improvement is not enough to satisfy SWMBO so we are sticking with the old Xsara Pic and saying "NUTS" to the environmental brigade.

 

The subject of tracking is one I have battled with in the past and the mathematics gave me a headache. I learned to just trust the manufacturers to get the maths right and just make sure everything else is as intended. Twice in the last half century I have solved problems of troublesome tyre scrubbing by ensuring that the adjustments for each side are exactly balanced and then using a carefully setting straight ahead with a calibrated stick. 5 mm inbalace can cause havoc. That also solved the problem of not having the steering wheel centred. Thankfully, mechanics these days are better trained.

 

Thanks to all for the helpful comments but all to no avail I'm afraid. I am sure that the C3 Picasso suits a great many folks but sadly, not us.