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1.6hdi - New Injector, Now Weird Rattle


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#1 Royal

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 09:53 AM

Had a leaking injector, garage has replaced injector with recon one and balanced the others(!). they also flushed the engine and replaced the oil.

Before all this the car (90K) started up fine and drove with the normal sounds from cold. Now when cold the car has a horrible rattle when under load, this disappear when warm.

Now I'm sure the garage os going to state that the flush has cleaned the crap out of the engine and hence the rattle. Is there any way that the replacement of the injectors would have caused this issue.

Additionally when the garage removed the faulty injector they removed some pipe that drained(?) the injector back into the head (all double dutch to me). They stuck it back in after grave warnings of head removal if they couldn't... Could this have some bearing on this noise.

Very stressed!

#2 JoeBlunt

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 10:30 AM

Do you mean the Engine is noisier (rattling more) or is it more like a pipe rattling against the engine?

I think the pipe you refer to is the 'Scavenger pipe' (well thats what I call it) it sends back unburnt fuel that isn't burn't first time (I think?). B)

Have you dipped the oil? Some people think it can't be low on oil but I'd always check as no ones perfect....

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#3 canyondust

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 10:41 AM

Before all this the car (90K) started up fine and drove with the normal sounds from cold. Now when cold the car has a horrible rattle when under load, this disappear when warm.
Are there any gasses passing by this replaced injector? Any build up of carbon/soot near the base?
Any diesel leak nearby? (I appreciate its not easy to actually look).


Additionally when the garage removed the faulty injector they removed some pipe that drained(?) the injector back into the head (all double dutch to me). They stuck it back in after grave warnings of head removal if they couldn't... Could this have some bearing on this noise.
The only two pipes to your injectors are the main high pressur einput pipe to the solenoid on the top and a leak back pipe. This allows fuel that isnt injected to flow back to the fuel tank. There are no pipes to the head per say so I am a little unsure what they mean (maybe it actually is double dutch :-).

Out of interest do you have any rough idea how long it took them to replace this injector? Its far from a quick job on a DV6 engined Pic like yours.
The comment regarding 'balancing' the others is an interesting one - I would quite like them to expand on that and explain 'exactly' what they did. I assume the new injectors was also coded correctly.....

Regards
James.

Edited by canyondust, 06 July 2008 - 10:42 AM.

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#4 kfk

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 11:20 AM

as canyondust says i would think the injector may have a coding issue, each of the injectors has a number on it and this number is entered into the injection ecu relative to which cylinder the injector is fitted.....the options are that they have all been shuffled round and none of them are where the computer thinks it should be, or the new injector is the only one that is wrong because no one has entered the new code.



With regards to bits being 'stuck them back in'.....i'm assuming someone hasnt glued something back on, but refitted something?....havent a clue what though.
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#5 Royal

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 05:10 PM

Sorry for lack of details full clarity below:

This is a Peugeot 307SW 1.6HDi and not a Picasso (maybe it wasn't such a good replacement for the Picasso after all!) but as the only decent Peugeot forum I can find charges for entry (noticed you're a member Canyondust), I've not yet joined.

I assumed that the Pug 1.6HDi and Citroen 1.6HDi were virtually identical and everyone was always pretty helpful here so.....

05 car 90K on clock serviced ~4K ago (FPSH), independent Peugeot/Citroen garage has done this work, don't know the oil

The recipt says 'fit recon injector to no. 3......send 3 injectors for specialist testing and balancing on test rig...rebuild and test....chemical flush engine & fuel...change oil & oil filter'

Charged

Edited by Royal, 06 July 2008 - 05:25 PM.


#6 canyondust

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 05:49 PM

Hi Mr Royal.

Indeed I am a member and now 'Pug Guru' of Pug Central; just over seven thousand users now.

The early 307's (CAN/VAN) are remakably similar both mechnically and electronically to the Picasso - the newer 307's (full VAN) are almost identical to the C4.

The comment you made about the 'exaust' noise does sound similar to an injector blowing combustion gasses past which is clearly not good. The DV6 engine is not particularly known for this fault but it does happen (and on the DW10) - more commonly I see this problem on the Ford varient (TDCi) of the 1.4Hdi due to there different seal designs.

Finding out of the injectors are indeed passing gas is usually fairly easy but access is limited on your vehicle (but not as bad as the Pic).

Best regards
James.
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#7 Guest_Sarlat04_*

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 07:47 PM

I know that this is way out of date but it may assist others browsing the post. We had one injector replaced on our 1.6hdi and it also came back making a chuffing noise. It went back to the local independent who told me that they would have to try and epoxy the injector in as the blowing had caused a damage to the sealing surface in the head and that the only alternative would be to remove the head and have it machined. This sounds similar to what the OP experienced. They did this but the problem returned. Not wanting the head removing i went to another garage and explained the problem. They had access to a tool to re-cut the sealing face with the head insitu and repaired the problem permanently for not a lot of money. Needless to say I shall not be returning to the original garage!

#8 granpa

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 09:14 AM

I too have just had a diesel injector replaced [cyl 4] with a new unit on my c4 pic, engine performs as it should but there is a noticeable knocking, like tappets, on idle and hard acceleration that wasnt there before, is this linked to programming the injector, should it be sorted or lived with


Edited by granpa, 29 December 2018 - 09:17 AM.


#9 discv

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 11:05 AM

Interesting posts. There are no shortcuts to injector sealing. Epoxy/gum,/ will fail-guaranteed.
The injector seats in the head need polishing/cutting. New copper seals need to be very lightly coated with very high temp grease.
1500c brake grease has worked for me. This allows the different rates of expansion to occur.
Torquing r down of they injector fixixing is a mission by itself. Of the garages I have discussed this subject most have not a clue, nor have theinch/pound torque wrench and dial gauge needed.
A length of pipe used as a stethasope is a good place to start to listen for blow by.
Confirmation of correct coding is essential. Lexis diagnostics are needed.
I think it unlikely that the injector code markings can be read whilst in situ.
Many disagree- but I found that after 1k, backing off the iinjector fixings evenly and to the point they were not actually loose, and then retorqueing and angle tightening proved that the copper seals had settled in.
It has to be said that I replaced the injector studs, the weak link in the chain. Garages rarely do this.
If a copper seal has failed then it is odds on that the seal between the injector tube and camcover will be damgaged. This is the point at which very hot exhaust gases meet engine oil, producing carbon grit that blocks the oil pickup and then blows the turbo.

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