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C4 Pic Economy Mode


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#1 steve brown

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 01:09 PM

my dealer rang me to tell me economy mode cannot be altered mine kicks in at just 5 minutes so if i want to listen to radio for more than that ive got to have engine running so with the cost of diesel its going to cost me to listen to my radio how silly is that.
thats the only niggle ive got other than that i think the cars great

why couldnt citroen put this in the settings so the user could have the option of changing it?

#2 canyondust

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 01:20 PM

I've yet to come across one where you cant set it in the BSI - I've done come C4's, C5's to actually increase this time (cant remember what the max was off the top of my head).

As kev when hes on - maybe he can shed some light - I'm well baffled.

James.
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#3 Lancelot

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 06:32 PM

my dealer rang me to tell me economy mode cannot be altered mine kicks in at just 5 minutes


Sounds as though your dealer is not fit for his job.
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#4 canyondust

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 06:38 PM

Sounds as though your dealer is not fit for his job.


in his primary role as chief money stealer I bet hes ace :-)
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#5 kfk

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 08:26 PM

THIS INFOMATION IS FOR C4 PICASSO ONLY: - Xsara Picasso operates differently and isnt discussed here!

Fitted to the battery is a control unit that works out how healthy the battery is, it does this by looking at voltage/current and the internal temperature of the battery. it uses this information to help the BSI calculate economy mode.


1st option
Assuming the vehicle has a healthy battery and the charging system is operating correctly and charging the battery for at least 15 minutes, upon turning the ignition off the radio will operate for approximately 30 minutes before entering economy mode. this is the maximum amount of time you will get before entering economy mode and this cannot be altered.


2nd option
Assuming the vehicle enters economy mode and you restart the car and run it for less that 2 minutes 30 seconds: it will take 5 minutes till it re-enters economy mode.


3rd option
Assuming the vehicle is run for more than 2 minutes 30 seconds but less than 15 minutes: it will take double the alternator operating time before it enters economy mode.


So some scenarios,

You pop down the local supermarket and wait in the car whilst the someone else shops. If the journey is less than 5 minutes you will get less than 10 minutes before economy mode activated.



Your last journey was for over an hour, you go to clean the car....the radio might work for half hour while you clean it and then enters economy mode, you start the car and then turn it straight off....the radio will operate for 5 minutes.



So why do we have economy mode?

Some might look at it as a means to stop you discharging your battery whilst entertaining yourself, others might suggest that its a feature of the vehicle to reduce the oportunity of a flat battery caused by a computer not shuting down correctly on the vehicle......however you see it, its there for your convenience.


I might add i have had a customer complaining about economy mode cutting in too early, once it was explained to him he realised it was doing (most of the time) what i said.
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#6 canyondust

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 09:53 PM

Kev.

Thanks for the excellent write up.

I have (as always) some questions.

1. What in an electronic form is the difference between the C4 (C4 Pic) BSi and the Xsara Picasso?
2. What in an electronic form is the difference between the C4 Pic Bsi and the C5?
3. What is the reason for the fixed time interval (on your first point) - in the software stack the timer appears adjustable (the multiplier at least) and the multiplier flag appears settable with either a Linux connection or via the PPS - making the 30mins adjustable.

James somewhat puzzled..
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#7 kfk

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 07:17 AM

To keep this simple.



1 - they are totally different, the X Picasso was one of the first vehicles in the range to use multiplexing, at the most it only has 8 multiplexed computers. The C4 Picasso could have in excess of 25 computers in its basic form. They also comunicate differently and at different speeds. Most common thing members will come up with is the type of system the vehicle runs when they look for interface units for a radio.

- Xsara Picasso uses CAN - VAN protocol

- C4 Picasso uses CAN - CAN protocol



2 - as above, although early C5s were more complex than the X Picasso. C5-2 uses CAN - CAN, so his isnt new for C4 Picasso.



3 - As you say it must be adjustable as the control unit on the battery provides data to shorten the time. However, as far a i know this canot be carried out using the diagnostic equipment provided by the manufacturer.

Edited by kfk, 27 April 2008 - 07:19 AM.

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Wants some help, give me a clue.......petrol/diesel/engine size/year....Please post messages in main forum before asking me in Private Message

....Still waiting for proof that the customer is always right
....Has anyone checked the nut holding the steering wheel?

....Has anyone seen the crystal ball?

#8 canyondust

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 08:37 AM

Hi Kev.
Thanks for your feedback. It seems Cit are somewhat behind in rolling out CAN CAN stuff compared to pug.
I'll have a furkle with the Lexia tool (with Nemo added) - I have the latest version but not had time to play on that kind of level - see if it shows up anything that could be altered.


Just for others reading this (I'm not teaching you to suck eggs kev :P)

The BSI (built-in systems interface) and BSM (built-in supply module) make up the main components of the electrical data network. They process the data from the different networks and send it out to the item of equipment concerned. They process the data from the different networks and send it out to the item of equipment concerned.

The BSI and BSM are interfaced with different items of equipment on the car through multiplex networks that apply two communication protocols (VAN and CAN):

This is a typical setup of a C3/C4/C5 etc

A VAN Comfort network (Vehicle Area Network for functions including the instrument cluster, navigation, car radio and air conditioning),

A VAN Body network (for functions including the airbags and upper part of the steering column),

A CAN network (Controller Area Network for such functions as engine control, electric power steering and headlamps).


I found this an interesting read about the C5 if you havent already seen it.

http://www.citroenet...w-c5/newc5.html
James Sinclair
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#9 steve brown

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 05:57 PM

THIS INFOMATION IS FOR C4 PICASSO ONLY: - Xsara Picasso operates differently and isnt discussed here!

Fitted to the battery is a control unit that works out how healthy the battery is, it does this by looking at voltage/current and the internal temperature of the battery. it uses this information to help the BSI calculate economy mode.
1st option
Assuming the vehicle has a healthy battery and the charging system is operating correctly and charging the battery for at least 15 minutes, upon turning the ignition off the radio will operate for approximately 30 minutes before entering economy mode. this is the maximum amount of time you will get before entering economy mode and this cannot be altered.
2nd option
Assuming the vehicle enters economy mode and you restart the car and run it for less that 2 minutes 30 seconds: it will take 5 minutes till it re-enters economy mode.
3rd option
Assuming the vehicle is run for more than 2 minutes 30 seconds but less than 15 minutes: it will take double the alternator operating time before it enters economy mode.
So some scenarios,

You pop down the local supermarket and wait in the car whilst the someone else shops. If the journey is less than 5 minutes you will get less than 10 minutes before economy mode activated.



Your last journey was for over an hour, you go to clean the car....the radio might work for half hour while you clean it and then enters economy mode, you start the car and then turn it straight off....the radio will operate for 5 minutes.



So why do we have economy mode?

Some might look at it as a means to stop you discharging your battery whilst entertaining yourself, others might suggest that its a feature of the vehicle to reduce the oportunity of a flat battery caused by a computer not shuting down correctly on the vehicle......however you see it, its there for your convenience.
I might add i have had a customer complaining about economy mode cutting in too early, once it was explained to him he realised it was doing (most of the time) what i said.

hi kev thanks for that fantastic info will try that out very soon just another question for you though if you dont mind
am i right in thinking economy mode only should come on if something is in use because mine comes on even though ive nothing switched on.
what i cant get my head around is whats the point of having a feature on the key to switch the lights on because after the chosen time (5 minutes in my case until i try your method out)i cant the only thing i can do is unlock and lock the car .
its a shame citroen have put some really serious thought into the c4 picasso then made a big boo boo with the economy mode it would have been perfect if it was an option for the user to be able to change it in the configure menu

#10 kfk

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 07:32 PM

ok......so i'm assuming the car doesnt switch to economy mode as soon as the the ignition is switched off...if it was i would suggest the dealer had left in factory mode.



You dont say if you have a towbar or any other accessory fitted.....it might be relevant.

Do you leave anything plugged into a power supply phone charger, power invertor....sat nav?....make sure they are unplugged.



Do you take more than five minutes to unpack your car?....this isnt being critical....its asking incase your getting a disabled person in and out in which case you would take longer than mr/mrs average.....and may be relevant.



Do you have air suspension at the rear?



Does economy mode ever occur between locking the car and returning to it latter.....ie, it was ok when i left it!



Something i would do is go give the car a run....at least 15 minutes, park it up, lock it & test your 'guide u home lights', go back to it over an hour later and see if economy mode on display. Obviously, this information is all going to be relevant to your dealer if they are to either resolve the problem or explain to you why its doing it.



As i said in a previous post, i have a customer that is having an issue with economy mode, we can never get it to occur........but he can make it happen, which leads me to believe it isnt a vehicle fault.



His issue seems to revolve around going for a game of golf.....now how long do people stand around discussing a walk on the green with the tailgate open?.......that said i may be wrong, will be interesting to know if he gets the same problem with mine when i lend it to him.
*************************************************
Wants some help, give me a clue.......petrol/diesel/engine size/year....Please post messages in main forum before asking me in Private Message

....Still waiting for proof that the customer is always right
....Has anyone checked the nut holding the steering wheel?

....Has anyone seen the crystal ball?

#11 DaveL

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 12:27 AM

Thank you, kfk, for the description of the dreaded Economy mode. It's something that's been driving me nuts since getting my C4 Grand Picasso 1.6D last March.

I AM disabled and I DO end up sitting in the car for longish periods while my wife walks the dogs, shops etc. Most of my journies are very short and it drives me nuts to have the radio cut off after so short a period. My present solution that at least enables me to stay reasonably sane is to carry a wind-up FM portable radio and use that instead!

Apart from the radio, I find very little to criticise in the vehicle. There's too much chrome to reflect the UK's occasional sunlight into the eyes and it would be nice to have ignition lock illumination for night-time use as the locks sits in shadow from the internal illumination. Citroen might also do well to market a system to enable the bottom half of the inside of the windscreen to be cleaned. I have long arms, but I don't contort too well these days.

I ran Renaults for several years prior to getting the Citroen and was plagued with intermittent problems that seemed to defy all logical attempts to fix, but at least the RADIO ran for 20 mins before a bleep warned there were about 5 seconds left for you to press the on/off button for another 20 minutes of listening.

Apart from the annoyances listed above, I would honestly say that this Citroen, a marque I held in contempt for most of a lifetime, is the best car I've ever driven! I've had (from the beginning) Rootes Group motors (Hillman etc.), B(L)MC, Ford, Saab (for 20 years), Volvo (10 years) and Renault (6 years).

These days, my car is my legs. I can't get down )or up) the hill on which I live without it. It's also the doggy taxi for taking my two rescued greyhounds for their two short walks each day. Whilst wife and dogs walk, I wind my little radio and glare ruefully at the car's inert audio system, the use of which is denied me for most of the time. I am rarely bothered to listen to the radio whilst driving, preferring to watch the road and ignore the missus! (Sorry, dear, I was concentrating.....)

Other Citroen owners to whom I've spoken all seem annoyed to various degrees by their radio's cutoff. The general consensus is they don't bother to use it much, which begs the thought, how much would prices reduce for a Citroen without the audio gear?

Kind regards to all.

DaveL

#12 Ernie

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 08:11 PM

My previous mpvs include 2 Top spec Renault Scenics and a Nissan.
not a problem in 10years between them all..
Also my 2 greyhounds..must be a common feature?
I am also delighted with the C4PicEX 2.0PetrolECG..except..
My economy mode comes on immediately and thus i now read that it is likely to have
been left in 'Factory' mode..
Before approaching the dealers.. would there be any othe tell tale signs that this was so?
Thanks